Well, they are moving.  Just in a riotous way.

Muslims WILLINGLY imigrated to this country. They CHOSE to live in France, nobody forced them. Abiding by French law and learning to speak the language should not be reasons to riot. ... BUT the point I am making is this. IF you willingly move to a neighborhood with community bylaws or to a new country with it's own rules and standards.....then you abide by the rules or MOVE!

Perhaps, but a lot of the rioters, maybe most, are children of immigrants, born in France.

They not only didn't have any choice in the matter, but are technically French.

Where do you expect them to move to when France is the only country they have ever known?


Also, this isn't about having to learn French. It's about being treated as second class citizens. It's about not being able to live in, say, Paris not because you can't afford it, but because of where your parents came from. It's about not being able to get a job because of your religious beliefs. It's about being discriminated against at every turn because "you're just not one of us, no matter what your birth certificate says."

Does that justify the violence? Of course not. Are darker elements using the civil unrest for their own motives. Probably. Does it need to be put down. Definitely. Do the French somehow "deserve it?" I don't think so, but there is a certain irony. It is a bed they've made themselves.

The French have always tended toward Xenophobia even while preaching tolerance.


(BTW, the riots at least are gleefully moving. Copycat incidents have popped up in Belgium and Germany. )

(After all, we expect American imigrants to learn the language and live by our laws)

as long as our laws don't infringe on their religous beliefs ... the French are bigots

It's fine with me if they haven't learned the leasons of long ago. The class system will not work. They will not be able to hold a group of people down in this day.

Perhaps, but a lot of the rioters, maybe most, are children of immigrants, born in France. They not only didn't have any choice in the matter, but are technically French.

They're geographically French, and nothing more. They are as foreign as the parents who gave birth to and raised them.

Where do you expect them to move to when France is the only country they have ever known?

To a land that's more in tune with their identity. For most, it's North Africa.

Also, this isn't about having to learn French. It's about being treated as second class citizens. It's about not being able to live in, say, Paris not because you can't afford it, but because of where your parents came from. It's about not being able to get a job because of your religious beliefs. It's about being discriminated against at every turn because "you're just not one of us, no matter what your birth certificate says."

You're treating their grievances as if they are logical or largely based on reality. There isn't much hard evidence to indicate that they are truly treated like second class citizens. Their unemployment is almost wholly subsidized by the state. They're largely dumb, lazy, and have bad attitudes, yet they want all the perks of life, and they want someone else to give it top them, all while they wear their hatred for the French and French society on their sleeve. All the talk of assimilation is useless. They are seccessionists. The want to be left alone to run their areas the way they want to with no interference from outsiders, and they want their agenda to be subsidized by the state. All they're saying is "Gimme the money, and leave me the f$%^ alone. And if you don't do both, we'll give you hell."

It's about being discriminated against at every turn because "you're just not one of us, no matter what your birth certificate says."

No, it's the other way around: "We're not one of you, no matter what our birth certificates say."

Arguing racial discrimination is a knee-jerk argument of the left, because to them, it just has to be racial discrimination. To say otherwise would imply that perhaps these "disadvantaged youths" are not the "WHOM" of Marxism, but may in fact be unrefined, dumb savages--and that no, not everybody is the same and of equal ability.

as long as our laws don't infringe on their religous beliefs ... the French are bigots It's fine with me if they haven't learned the leasons of long ago. The class system will not work. They will not be able to hold a group of people down in this day.

The Marxist 'class system' approach of looking at this issue are completely detached from reality. The motivator is cultural, not economic--and Marxism is completely unable to grasp that (as incorrect as the Marxist model is in dealing even with economics).

Do I think the headscarf ban may have been a bit intolerant of personal religious beliefs? Yes, BUT I understand. I think the fear of losing thier culture to Islam was a valid one.

If your culture is so weak that a the sight of a kid wearing a headscarf can destroy it, then it's beyond saving.

Perhaps, but a lot of the rioters, maybe most, are children of immigrants, born in France. They not only didn't have any choice in the matter, but are technically French. Where do you expect them to move to when France is the only country they have ever known?

If they are "technically French" Then they should technically abide by the laws. And send the whole darn family back to the homeland. If parents cannot control the children....then export the whole lot of them. I have no problems with other cultures or religions, but I do have a problem with troublemakers

gleefully

You sound so compassionate. Do you long for them to destroy other people?

They are as foreign as the parents who gave birth to and raised them

That seems to be the case, they want the benifits of living in France without being part of France.

The want to be left alone to run their areas the way they want to with no interference from outsiders, and they want their agenda to be subsidized by the state.

Hmmm sounds like the slackers in NO.

If your culture is so weak that a the sight of a kid wearing a headscarf can destroy it, then it's beyond saving.

1-not my culture and 2-It's not just one or two headscarves. We are talking large areas that are predomenantly Muslim that expect everyone to abide by thier standards. They want to have religious right over others. The French have a bigger problem than a few headscarves....that's just a surface issue. What about when a father drowns his daughter as punnishment.....is that okay if the religion dictates it? What about beating your wife? These are issues coming up that are causing conflict in virtually every area where a large population of Muslims is congregated. Their personal views often conflict with the local traditions, values and laws. IT was bound to come to a head eventually.

If they are "technically French" Then they should technically abide by the laws.

Even if they are not "French", then they are guest workers, and as such should abide by the laws or leave.

Even if they are not "French", then they are guest workers, and as such should abide by the laws or leave.

Thank you.

Even if they are not "French", then they are guest workers, and as such should abide by the laws or leave.

Thank you.