I agree with you 200%. This may sound bad, but...that's why I don't go to church in my town. Every time I've been, I hear, "If you're not Baptist / Methodist / whatever-else-is-in-my-town, you will not go to heaven." I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus. I try to live as what I've read and think that Jesus would want. Sure, I slip up, don't we all to some extent? I get so mad...

Anyway. Good rant.

I know exactly how you feel. Although born and raised mormon, I am no longer active. I believe in God and Jesus therefore still consider myself Christian. I believe that as long as you have a personal relationship with God, the specifics on how you worship should be up to you. People that judge the religious choices that others have made should step back and re-evaluate their own religious views and relationships. Last I checked God was the only one who had any right to judge anyone.

Insightful post, lifehappens. You are right in every word that you wrote, in my opinion. Jesus never taught intolerance, just the opposite. He taught inclusiveness. The Israelite people of the OT made that same mistake. They thought just because they had been born of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they had it made. Today, people thinks just because they are born and raised as a Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Catholic, Methodist or whatever, that does it for them.

Salvation is a free gift. Jesus did it all just like that..ta..da! Believe in Him....really believe...follow His teaching... then you are saved. You are a child of God...then He expects us to act like it for the rest of our lives. It is so simple...so joyous, so wonderful to realize what He did for us...we want to share that with others...but like Jesus...we are called to be tolerant...a light...salt that adds flavor and zest to the world...not bitterness, hatred and selfishness.

Thanks for your insights, Lifehappens.

it's people who mess up religion. all the different sects of christianity hold many of the same beliefs, yet can't see past their own organizations long enough to figure that out. and a lot of times people who are well meaning and really genuinely concerned -like parents or friends, etc.- will push religion so hard that they bring about the exact opposite of their intentions, namely driving people away. so, i guess what i'm saying is figure out what you believe, and don't let anyone - well meaning or otherwise - keep you from those beliefs.

LH: I have read this many times, each time hoping my muddled mind (as of late) would come up with something insightful, thoughtful, or even just plain coherent would pop out. No sopapilla.

Let me just say well written and a good point. Thanks.

It's amusing to me when I see Christians arguing over the "real" Jesus.

Great thoughts!!

I just tell people who try to convince me that I'm not accepting the "real" Jesus (therefore I can't be saved) that, last I checked, when God was looking for a Judge and Savior of us all, neither I, nor anyone telling me that I'm not into the "real" Jesus stood up and volunteered for the job.

I'll let the one who did, decide! ;~D

Life,

It's a phenomenom I call the "paradox of the grace only Christian". Lemme sum up.

Baptists, for instance, believe that we are saved by grace alone (I tend to agree with them in this regard). Where they err in doctrine; however, is that they teach that if someone else believes they are saved by works, even if they preach the same Jesus, they are not saved. The flaw in this theology is obvious; by attaching a requirement to HOW one must believe in Jesus, they've attached a work of sorts, and salvation by grace goes out the window. My contention is that the same grace that covers my flawed theology covers that of other believers, and that one who SINCERELY believes in Jesus (I DO attach THIS qualifier because it has scriptural support; the word "believe" in John 3:16 and elsewhere is a Greek word that has a far deeper concept of belief than one our modern language attaches to it) has not only hope, but assurance of, salvation.

A few questions then arise as to "are they preaching the Jesus of the Bible?" and, "Do they truly believe?" Because only God knows the hearts of man, neither I nor anyone else except yourself may answer this question properly.

Although I am far from being a universalist, I go further in stating that there will be those on earth who will make it to heaven from whom the name of Jesus never left their lips. As examples, I list the Old Testament prophets who lived in the HOPE of the Messiah, although not in the fulfillment of the Messiah (and we, even in this age, live in only PARTIAL fulfillment; many unreached cultures believe in a God they cannot name, and I can't automatically dismiss that God from being the God of the Bible).

I hope you'll forgive the rant, and know that I said all that to say this: while any denomination can pick apart the flaws of another denomination (and usually with merit; we, being imperfect in this life, are often imperfect in doctrine), only God knows the heart. You know who you are, and have assurance from scripture of your standing with God if you believe, as you are instructed.

and we would never try to force it on you or persecute you because of it

Sadly, while I am sure that is true of you and many others (such as bluedev), it's NOT true of all among the LDS, as I can testify, having grown up in the faith and having many horrible experiences from leaving it

and we would never try to force it on you or persecute you because of it Sadly, while I am sure that is true of you and many others (such as bluedev), it's NOT true of all among the LDS, as I can testify, having grown up in the faith and having many horrible experiences from leaving it

Yes, unfortunately, while there are many great things to be said about the LDS church and us members, there are examples of times we fall far short of the ideal we hope to achieve. Some members are overbearing and rude out of an over abundance of zeal, but usually, it's just the good ol' "human nature" variety of rudeness. Ironic though, because the ones who do it most claim to live the teachings of the Jesus Christ and the LDS Church the closest, yet I can't remember Christ, Our Prophet, Apostles or any other leaders teaching us to treat people who aren't members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (or aren't anymore) badly.

I think the number of tryrannical Christians, like the traditional ones from the 16th century, are tiny nowadays compared to the number of Christians as a whole today. But most people still seem to identify Christians with them. The problem seems to be that they have a loud voice and stick out like a sore thumb, which is why Christians get such a bad name.

Even Gideon is a "traditional" Christian, I think, yet he is warm hearted and open, and doesn't judge people, which is what being a Christian is all about to me. I think that humanity will grow out of the narrow tyrannical stuff, and that the number of warm hearted Christians will continue to increase - even whilst retaining a traditional Christian outlook, (yet without negativity). As our spiritual awareness rises, Christianity will blossom, I'm sure, and JC, the Righteous Dude, will return to a hearty crop.

You know I have found that generally people who want to tell you about their beliefs do not want to hear anything about yours. I am pretty much ex-mormon at them moment. I just stopped going, but was never excommunicated or anything. You say the beliefs of Mormons are not forced upon others, but I felt very harrassed to listen to the teachings of the missionaries when I was investigating.

You feel strongly about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They feel strong about the Baptist church. If you want them to "respect your views" how can you write this about them, so dripping with sarcasm seeming to laugh at their views? They are strongly defending what they think is right. Just as you want the right to do.

-Jenn

Wow. Thank you all for the great comments. As I am currently holding a squirming baby, I will make my reply short for now and comment more later.

I wantedt to address Jenn. She said

You feel strongly about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They feel strong about the Baptist church. If you want them to "respect your views" how can you write this about them, so dripping with sarcasm seeming to laugh at their views?

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not laughing at thier views and i am not saying this in sarcasm. I respect everyone's God given right to choose. I am sorry that you felt harrassed by the missionaries who you spoke to when you investigated the LDS church.
I think that it is important for everyone to respect the way people choose to worship God. I don't agree with many of the teachings of my father's church, but I would never tell anyone that they are going to hell because of a difference in opinion. I believe that 1-God knows what he is doing and will sort it out in the end and 2-While I may feel that I do have a greater understanding of some things, I do not come close to knowing everything. 3-God doesn't want anyone "forced" to "believe". He wants us to choose of pur own free will.

So please do not think I am sarcastic or laughing at others.

daehaksang, I'm sorry that you feel so unhappy with the churches in your town. I think that you shouldn't give up your search though. There are many things we can learn from those around us. Mamie said it right when she pointed out that "people mess up religion". Don't let people get you down because ultimately that's not the important part....important truths will never be changed, regardless of people and thier reactions to it.

Pantherchic and ParaTed2k, you are right. We were not put here to judge anyone else. But when well meaninged individuals (like your parents, pantherchick) try to encourage you to follow the same path that they are on... try to see if they are doing it because they are "judging you" or if they are trying to help you. The intent can change the effect they have on others. (I will have to blog about that more later)

Thanks oleteach, you said it in the best way. Thanks for reading my stuff and commenting.

Gideon, Wow. I love the logic there. You get an insightful for that. and it wasn't a rant, just a motivated outpouring of your opinion....much to nice to be a rant, in my opinion. Thanks.

Gideon, parateck and Jenn. I'm sorry that you have come across the phenomenon known as "people are flawed too" I just hope you can remember to separate doctrine and faith from the overzelous or rude. I know I am never perfect and I only hope that my actions don't reflect poorly upon my beliefs. I would be horrified to learn that my behaviour was the reason someon turned away from Christ. I'm sure that the individuals that you came across would feel the same way.