I think the point is that it is the SYSTEM that needs to change. We are products of the system, both black and white. The Black 'minorities' are in the position they are today because of past prejudice and discrimination. In part, the system is setup almost as a form of reperation for past damages, a type of appeasement for harms done. The problem is this doesn't work.

I know if I had a yummy sweet dangled in front of me as a child I would have taken it. we can't blame the black people for recieving more benefits than us, the benefits are there whether they are taken or not... not taking them is more a crime than taking them! (as some of the previous commenters have said about scholarships).
The problem is that with the new generations the privelege and the entitlements are taken for granted. They don't mean much because they have had them from a young age. in a way they don't even see the oportunities as chances that others don't get anymore (generalising here) they just take them as due and move on.

It is the system that needs to change. Nothing, certainly not money can make up for racial crimes against black people in times past. Rewarding the children of children whose parents suffered will not fix the pain there forebears experienced.. in some ways it makes matters worse, because these people can AFFORD to underachieve, to not make use of there potential, to just squander it and get by without trying there best. Of course not all do, just like not all white kids end up finding there true potential. But when you know that the government is almost forced to take your side in circumstances I think it would imperceptably change your mindset about how you can live life.

In my country (New Zealand) it is sometimes worse. The Maori people were supplanted by the British colonisers in the 1840's. In recent times the government has decided (under pressure) to give land settlements and huge monetary grants to Maori Groups. The thing is that these Maroi groups funnel away the money in stupid investments, the Maori people don't really even see any monetary benefits individually. These organisations are meant to represent the Maori, but instead they take tax payers money, and then go on ill concieved ventures because they place no significance in the money the\y recieve, because they did not earn it.

*sigh*

In another 300 hundred years, I wonder if the white minority will stand up for there rights against the black oppresors and rebel against the black majority for freedom and equal rites for everyone, to be able to be taught in the 'black only' proveleged schools and to ride the 'black only' buses and trains to work, to hold priveleged positions of importance in society... wouldn't it be strangely ironic is society swung completely the other way in the next 300 years?

Well put 4D, and I agree completely. I have not problem with my classmates who receive such scholarships. I am glad there are means and funds there for some of the students.

What I have a problem with is a system that ensures that there exist more funds and greater access to said funds for one race than for another. It is still a glaring inequality.

wuxiaomao ...there just aren't enough trolling ratings in a day.

more favorable interest rates? I have never seen a bank say 5.9% for whites but 8.9% for blacks.

jill, you dont truly expect lenders to brag about it do you?

here's excerpt from an article in the real estate journal--published by the wall street journal--titled "Survey Shows Patterns Of Lender Discrimination" by Patrick Barta (dec 16, 2003) recapping the results of a study conducted by the national community reinvestment coalition. the author notes this study is particularly relevant because it surveyed groups of borrowers with similar credit factors, comparative incomes and properties. ncrc utilized the actual numeric credit quality scores from large credit-reporting bureau, matching them to actual government data.


The report examined lending patterns in 10 U.S. cities, including Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York and Washington, D.C. It found, among other things, that borrowers who were refinancing their mortgages and lived in predominantly African-American neighborhoods were more likely to get higher-cost subprime loans than refinance borrowers in white neighborhoods in all 10 cities except New York, even when the neighborhoods had comparable credit characteristics. A similar pattern existed for mortgages on home purchases in six of the 10 cities. Subprime lending also was more prevalent in neighborhoods with large numbers of residents above 65 years of age, the study found.

In Houston, the study found that African-Americans were more likely to get subprime loans by a total of 41 percentage points. That means that if 10% of the refinance loans in a predominantly white neighborhood in Houston were subprime, 51% would be subprime in a Houston African-American neighborhood.

Its just not happening, its a myth

mortgage brokers arent nearly as regulated as big lenders. same situation as insurance companies who dont engage in redlining 'officially'.

whether it's being done by the entity at the top or someone a few rungs down is really a moot point to the victim isnt it?

You are just showing your racist attitudes here.

thanks. it's mighty white of you to say so.

An individuals lifespan has mostly to do with how they care for their body.

minorities don't avail themselves of decent healthcare because they have an early death wish? the following is excerpted from 'Mortality Outlook: An Overview of African-American Health' by chiquita collins, published by the university of michigan. the disparity between white males and black males charted in this report was 8.2 years; white women to black women was 5.8 years (National Center for Health Statistics:. Health, United States, 1992. Table 27, pg. 44. Hyattsville, Maryland: Public Health Service, 1993)

Overall, African Americans more so than white Americans have higher incidence rates of mortality. Not only has the gap widened for overall mortality, the gap has widened tremendously for specific causes of death such as homicide and injury related mortality. In summary, African Americans in the United States suffer a greater disadvantage concerning their health outcomes compared to whites. High rates of mortality are higher for blacks among the late adolescent and early adulthood age groups than blacks of older age groups. In fact, mortality rates are only lower among blacks at the oldest ages of the life span when compared to whites. This phenomenon is commonly termed as the "mortality crossover."

Many have discredited the mortality crossover, stating that it is merely due to misreporting of ages at the oldest ages. Despite the controversy over the mortality crossover, there is reason to suggest that certain determinants are influencing African Americans at earlier ages during their life span that can explain this phenomenon. Socioeconomic status, whether measured by income, education, employment, occupation, poverty or wealth, traditionally has been one of the strongest determinants of variations in health in the general population (Kitagawa & Hauser, 1973; Haan & Kaplan, 1986; Feldman, et al 1989).

However, race also has an effect on health which is independent of its relationship with socioeconomic status. African Americans are more likely to receive inferior medical care as a result of their lower socioeconomic status and exposure to continued racial discrimination in the quality and quantity of health care services. Many important questions are raised regarding differential health that need to be addressed in the context of the ways in which racism affects mortality. Without primary policy efforts aimed at minority and ethnic populations for specific causes of death, we can not optimistically believe that racial mortality differentials will be reduced or eliminated anytime soon.

stereotypes were inspired by reality.

in fact, its just the opposite.

ive utilized too much of this thread already validating my original one-phrase statements and there's a plethora of research available offline and online demonstrating that while stereotypes may influence reality, they contradict objective observed behavior.

who says the black community gets more scholarships ? got some numbers to back that up or is it one of those things 'everyone' knows?

of course, its discrimination. im not familiar with any cultural preference for being ripped off but perhaps im not close enough to the street?
since its also being done to older people of all race--and nobody ever discriminates against them--perhaps youre suggesting ive got it 180 degrees reversed. rather than excluding blacks, unscrupulous lenders are welcoming them with open arms and taking care to make sure they get fleeced just as thoroughly as the next old person?

parental instruction is only relevant in that a lot of peoples' parents seem to have forgotten to teach their mendacious little future paragons of the community not to take advantage of others just because theyre able to do so.

I know if I had a yummy sweet dangled in front of me as a child I would have taken it. we can't blame the black people for recieving more benefits than us, the benefits are there whether they are taken or not

You are right of course. If I qualify for a grant or scholarship or hell, even food stamps and I needed it, I'd take it. I would be crazy to think anyone would turn down benefits. If it's there I can't complain that they are taking advantage of the system....I think the system of justifying disproportionate benefits and opportunities, based on past history is ridiculous.


kingbee: You make a lot of points, just one comment on the lifespans.....you qoted an article writen in 1992, about people who were DEAD so lets just assume that they were 60-75 year old (just an average guess)....you are discussing a group of people that were born in, um.....1917 to 1932. Your justifications are correct, medical care was definetely a factor, as was the lack of treatment options for race specific diseases and lower income etc. HOWEVER, the disparity between medical treatment based on race is no longer as signifigant. Sorry, but that just doesn't hold true anymore. The vote has to go with JillUser on this one

and to you wuxiaomao:

Dont fucking generalise just because you are not happy with the 50 non white people in your community

Get your head out of your ass and quit being so defensive. I never said I am unhappy with 50 "non-whites" I don't like the system of discrimination.....in any direction. You can bet that if I saw someone being mistreated because they were black, I would be just as pissed (It happened and I was!). In fact, you don't know me, but I spent 5 1/2 years in the US Army where I was one of 3 whites in a company of 50 blacks, latinos and various other races.....but you know what? They were all AMERICAN. Promotions, time off, etc etc were all given based on work performance and effort put forth. Did I bitch about any of them? NO. Because they were happy to be judged on their character and not the color of their skin. If I had an issue with one of them, believe me. It's because they were stupid or lazy, not because they tan better than me. So use some brain cells and THINK before you write something that's so pathetic.

HOWEVER, the disparity between medical treatment based on race is no longer as signifigant. Sorry, but that just doesn't hold true anymore

if, instead of assuming things were better, youd taken a minute to check the cdc's most recent data (which was updated in 2003 and 2004, but is still based on the years 1990-2001 (im using 1999 because its the last year that isnt going to be changed), youd have seen there is still a significant difference.  a white male born in 1999 has an expected lifespan of 74.6 years vs a black male's els of 67.8, a difference of 6.8 years; white female born in 1999 has an els of 79.9 vs a black female els of 75.4, for 4.5 years.  

 

Being Castilian Spanish, Mexican and White never afforded me any special privliges, not even once in my life. When I had graduated from high school I had tried getting student loans and couldn't qualify because my parents made too much money according to the set guidelines, which I thought was absurd as we always seemed to be just getting by.

Where I live is extremely racially diverse, this is what I see everyday. Not once do I see a white man standing on the corner or along the street waiting to be picked up for a job, mostly day labor work, nor do I see the black man standing out there. You know who is standing out there, the Hispanic man willing to work his ass off for a few dollars. Shame on everyone one of those jobless persons who don't have the balls to stand out there on their own.

Who complains about all the little convenience stores, gas stations, laundries and etc that are owned by the Middle Easteners, or the Asians, the white guy who isn't willing to work for less than 75-100K a year.

Reality is that some a willing to work hard and do what it takes to get somewhere while a large majority feel that something is owed them and should be given to them.

I'm an average american working an average job and there is no one who deserves 40 acres and a mule, be proud for what you can accomplish on your own and don't expect that if something doesn't work out that anyone person or race is to blame, bottom line is each one of us as humans whether conciously or subconsciously has contributed to the bitterness or today's world.

life happens...whose taking things personally now? I have a right to my opinion too just as much as you have and if you don't like it you can shove it and stick it up YOUR ass

yea thats real mature...if you cant join an adult conversation..maybe you should take a time outdharmagirl

Like I said, there just aren't enough trolling ratings in a day....

if, instead of assuming things were better, youd taken a minute to check the cdc's most recent data

I actually did check the data, and i think we are looking at it from two different points of view. The study concluded that "substantial improvements were made" and that while 7 of the 14 indicators showed that improvements in the black non-hispanics still were below the white non-hispanic groups, the "gap was steadily closing". Other groups showed an even larger disparity (Asian). I'm not going to disect the numbers, but I admit, I do tend to look at many things with rose colored glasses on and it is good for me to get out and see the differences. ...That doesn't mean I want to move to socialized medical care! (we can save that for a new day...I may write something on that....)

popoposum:.

Who complains about all the little convenience stores, gas stations, laundries and etc that are owned by the Middle Easteners, or the Asians, the white guy who isn't willing to work for less than 75-100K a year. Reality is that some a willing to work hard and do what it takes to get somewhere while a large majority feel that something is owed them and should be given to them.

I like the fact you are proud of the things you are willing to work for. That's the kind of attitude the more individuals should have and I think that was basically what I wanted to hit on in this article....You shouldn't get something for nothing....or based on the color of your skin. Asians (here I go...making a stereotypical generalization....), as I was, many of the Asians that I have met (there I covered my bases) have an excellent work ethic. they work hard for what they want. They either go to school , start a buisness or get a job and then work till they achieve thier goal. they don't depend on past injustices to give them an easy way to the top.....

wuxiaomao ...there just aren't enough trolling ratings in a day.

Wu: You can point out my flaws in logic. You can enlighten me with a new point of view or throw out new information, but don't just be vicious......Being rude to Dharmagrl (and everyone else) kinda pissed me off. if you don't have anything to contribute....stay out. I used up my trolling ratings on you too. And cause I like Dharmagrl....you can get blacklisted. Have a nice day.

Never thought I'd feel the need to do that.

You're right. Blacks/Asians/Native Americans shouldn't be treated special. They shouldn't blame how they are because of our race or theirs. And it is true. A black person can point a finger at a white and no harm done, but vise versa and it's this huge conspiracy. We're the big meanies, "whites", and I find it incredibly stupid. There's so much racism at our school. There are almost no groups of mixed races (i.e. black and whites together) and I daresay I have any black friends. I don't. Our school is basically divided. We hang with our own kind. Blacks with blacks, whites with whites, asians with asians, and so on. And it is ridiculous!

We had this huge banning of the rebel flag last year. Because people were constantly wearing them and I guess it was offensive somehow...

My english teacher - who wasn't a very good teacher at all - taught us nothing but racial things. We did these bell journal entries (five minutes of writing and then discussed) and guess what it had to do with? Black people (she was so...). We read Romeo and Juliet (which was not required), again about racialist families. We read Malcolm X and any other racial story in our English books but no others. Holocaust. Racism. We learned absolutely nothing, and by the time school was ending people were sick of it. We just figured, hell we're not learning anything, why bother? What I'm getting at is that we were a class of whites with a black teacher who taught us nothing we were supposed to learn. She was also sexist. Some girl could curse like a sailor and she'd let it slip. Some boy says one word and it's, "Get outta here and see the dean." I'm a girl but I still find this sexist. All I'm proving is that it isn't just white people who are racist, sexist, or whatever.

This car of blacks yelled out their window once, "I hate white people!" for absolutely no reason.. Black people blame their faults on white people saying it's our fault. Not all of you, but there are quite a handful who have. I have absolutely nothing against blacks, so don't think I'm racist, but I don't think some people are racist at all. I don't think blacks should say we're racist because doesn't their hate towards us make them hypocrits?

Walmart, where my mother works, the managers won't fire any of the lazy blacks because it's considered - oh what's that word? - "racist." A white slacks off and they can be fired like that. They're just afraid of getting slammed with a lawsuit. It's unjust and unfair.

Black skin shouldn't get you anything that white doesn't.